Acedip

If there’s one thing I hate, it’s hypocrisy. It’s sad that institutes and students take part in this shit.

* Sigh *

1) “Everyone feared IBM in the good old days, when guys in black suits and tie would either make you go out of business or buy you off the hook. IBM guys were considered evil big brothers, who were ruthless and sung company songs.”
=> well they are ruthless for sure. dont you know how they helped the Nazi’s during the Holocaust?

2) “There is a very popular competition which IBM runs in india called TGMC”
=> yes it is pretty much popular!

3) “IBM only accepts projects made using its technology”
=> yes bcoz this competition is to popularize IBM’s products and technologies all over India (what did you think?)

4) “the tools which only IBM provides to the educational institute you are in and yes, they dont give these tools to individuals”
=> the tools are free to download from their website and anyone can easily download them from IBM’s website. a person just has to fill couple forms which some boneheads like you dont know how to fill, (or are scared, maybe?) coz i just downloaded all of them last year without a problem.
=> they also distribute it through DVD’s through their campus ambassadors in colleges.

5) “they can only be acquired once your institute is in the program”
=> really? our college was not part of this program last year so how did I manage to “acquire” them?

6) “and it so happens that IBM after sending its big boys to your institute and, your college will soon will make it compulsory for everyone in the final year to make their major projects for IBM”
=> did IBM send anyone (of its “big boys”) to our college to make TGMC compulsory for final yr students??? NOOOOO!!!!!
=> so whose fault is it anyways? every college has a choice to make TGMC compulsory or not, and it is the fault of these colleges who choose to make TGMC compulsory bcoz it is not mandated by the university and hence not part of the curriculum

7) “and my college is one of them and we are stuck with making our major projects in TGMC if we want or not.”
=> why did you take admission in such college??
=> you could have easily protested this and talked to your principal or the university(RTU) if needed, coz no university endorses TGMC or makes it compulsory. I think it is the fundamental right of all engineers to make any project they wish to make.
“The tools to be used are : Rational Rose/RSA
RAD/Eclipse/WSAD/ WebSphere Portal
WAS/WAS CE
DB2 Express – ‘C’ or DB2 UDB”
=> one of the purposes of TGMC is to popularize IBM products so it is not surprising they want you to use their software.
=> Eclipse/WASCE/DB2 Express-C are open source and since you love open source so much i am sure you would love to develop software using them.
=> and Eclipse was donated by IBM to the Open Source Community (was worth $40 million then) (see wikipedia)
=> speaking of Rational – it is used to create UML diagrams and in 2007 one team (DOT MINE JAAM) made their project without making their UML diagrams in Rational and they were still in top5. they only emphasize the use of Rational Unified Process which is proven to be beneficial to software development.
=> besides they encourage use of many standards based modern technologies like soa, xml, soap, web services, ajax which are always useful to learn (BTW have you EVER used these before?)

and as it seems that you cant do this project without IBM’s help. But what is more important are the Terms and Conditions, what it has imposed on all student developers working on it, here is an interesting one :-

9) “By submitting entries, entrant grants IBM and their agents of the program the right to publish, use, adapt, sell, edit and/or modify such entry in any way, in commerce and in any and all media worldwide, including but not limited to the Internet, without limitation and without compensation to the entrants. Entrant also grants IBM worldwide irrevocable, nonexclusive and royalty-free right and license to use, have used, copy, reproduce, transfer, modify and/or display any information contained in their entry in whole or part and in any form without compensation.”
“Woah!! So that means you dont own your work, it just does not belong to you”
=> the lines do not mean you dont OWN your work. you can easily submit it as your final year project, sell it or do anything with it. It is just a formality and is required by IBM to allow them to upload the projects of the top winners so everyone can download them and learn from the code they have written.
=> in fact open source(the Gnu GPL) license makes it compulsory for you to release the code you have written/modified to everyone and make it freely distributable.

10) “I wonder what is this giant teaching young students on this country”
=> you can only wonder

11) “And what is this policy where, on one hand its promoting open source and on the other its doing this.”
=> Eclipse was donated by IBM to the Open Source Community (was worth $40 million then) (see wikipedia)
=> it has developed open source versions of its popular software
=> it was one of the investor of the Open Source Development Labs which ultimately became The Linux Foundation and employs the famous Linus Torvalds
=> wikipedia says it has more than 300 linux kernel developers and it invests billions of dollars in services and software based on Linux through the IBM Linux Technology Center
=> so how can you say it is not supporting open source??

12)”And this is not limited to my college alone, I know a lot many college in jaipur, rajasthan, india which have fallen for this and have made it mandatory for their students to work on it.”
=> again the fault is completely on part of the colleges as they are not directed by the university to do so.

You can come any time to discuss this on irc://irc.freenode.net/lug-japur

@A.S.S.
that condition is to allow IBM the right to upload you project on its servers so others can download and view your code and learn from it

they dont say you have to give IBM the “exclusive” or “sole” license to use/modify/sell/…/… ,
you can use/sell/license your code to anyone you may wish to.

they do say they can do anything they want to with you code including but not limited to making monetary gains from your code but that doesnt mean they dont acknowledge that you have written it . just see last year projects on IBM website. they have the team
names and member details of who has written the code along with the projects they have made.

and how is it any different than open source software. read the following for a detailed explanation of Gnu GPL license

the Gnu GPL license states that anyone can freely use open source software but if you modify it or change it and wish to make money by selling it , you have to make your modified code available as a GPL licensed code only

also every Gnu GPL licensed software makes the code of that software open to everyone and anyone to use/modify/make-money-with-it , without giving you any part of that money, whether the money is gained from distributing your software or selling it to people
and anyone else that you have “sold” your software to, has the right to freely distribute your code to anyone and everyone without giving you any money from his sales!

so basically everyone who gets your Gnu GPL licensed code (by paying for it or not) pretty much becomes the owner of the code even if you have originally written it!

[ taken from http://articles.sitepoint.com/article/public-license-explained ]

=>
i got an email today from my classmate abt your post and he had mailed it to so many students in our college and to our faculty and i read what cheap things you had written and i thought i should respond , in kind.

and when i pushed the submit button i thought it wud get posted right away but all i got was “waiting for admin to approve your comment….”
that means you get to control what comments get posted to your blog (need i say more?)

i thought you were never going to publish my comment so i emailed my comment back to him and made that twitter post (sorry abt that. i didnt mean to hurt your feelings)

=> “abusing you”, seriously? what are you ? 6 years old? (again sorry with cherries on top. i didnt mean to hurt you)

@CantGetANick
i am not trying to prove anything . and i am not on IBM pay rolls(i wish i was). A.S.S. posted something on his blog and i just commented on it (see that is what i like abt the internet – FREE SPEECH – you say what you want to say and i say what i want to say)

and i dont care what anyone writes about anyone/anything on the internet but your post made my naive classmate to blindly email it to a lot of students and after a faculty responded to his emails , he sent out another email to everyone :-

“….So I apologize on my part if the mail is taken in any other sense, regardless of whatever the intention was, we were just concerned about the licensing issue, which IBM will reply and no one else can…..”

@A.S.S.
i dont care what IBM does. i dont care if its right or wrong. and how can you think it is not supporting open source? it is pumping billions of dollars into linux development and have also made linux their preferred platform for development in TGMC. they do popularize their own software, but c’mon they are organising the whole nation-wide competition and giving away the prizes(so many of them) and spending lot of money on it and students get to learn some leading technologies like xml,ajax,etc. etc. and java(which is “everywhere”). you get to learn these technologies and you can use your skills to write any open source software you want to

i dont care what colleges do. all they want is to make money(primarily) and having a popular company name associated with them helps them do that.
and if you dont like that your college is making you do TGMC projects, why dont to take it up with your college instead of writing it on a blog which noone reads.

P.S. i just cant understand why is it that one always has to fight for his freedom when it is a fundamental right?

@noone

“….So I apologize on my part if the mail is taken in”
All of your apologizes are granted, no one have hard feeling with you.

“i am not on IBM pay rolls(i wish i was”
I had a chance with IBM and I have refused IBM pay rolls with respect. Hope one day you would understand why?

Noone as you agree that
1: IBM endorse only its tools,
2: and they are not truly GPL (appreciate that you feel that it is almost gpl, also appreciate your argument that if we accept GPL then why not the IBM license )
3: IBM makes money with such kind of projects.

That is what Acedip wants to let people know.

“why are you so worried about the ownership of your code if you love open source ”
Boy with due respect you need to find out difference between open source and FOSS.

“take it up with your college instead of writing it on a blog which noone reads.”
who said noone reads, you read it. . oh you are noone.

“i dont care if its right or wrong.”
Well we do.

“i dont care what colleges do. all they want is to make money(primarily) and having a popular company name associated with them”
Thats why we are making every one aware of it.

“when i pushed the submit button i thought it wud get posted right away but all i got was “waiting for admin to approve your comment….”
@noone you see moderation is very important as some time some people get excited and they use very provoking words so being a responsible person we have to control the quality of comments here and make sure that meet the quality standard. But Acedip posted you comment did not he. (although he have to make it little presentable)

And please If you have enough guts then next time come with real name, we will not bite you. .

@CantGetANick

haha!
you didnt even read what i wrote!
that apology was sent out by my classmate who preciously popularised this post by forwarding it to so many students of our college and also our faculty.

=> and i dont read this blog – it was forwarded as an email by my naive classmate which A.S.S. successfully convinced into believing that IBM is not supporting open source and he blindly forwarded this post to many of our college students and then after 5 hrs he forwarded another round of emails apologising for the same!!

=> this competition is solely organized/funded/promoted by IBM. they are taking so much pain and expenditure and if they are asking us to use their software, it is only fair to do so. if you dont want to use their software you are happily welcomed NOT to take part in this competition. and BTW this is what companies do – they create a competition based on their products to popularize them(like microsoft imagine cup,etc,etc) but IBM is not forcing you to take part in their competition.

=>”That is what Acedip wants to let people know.”
my comments were on what lie A.S.S. had written in his original post claiming that TGMC is hurting open source.
and i think everyone already knows your point no. 1 and 2 (coz its pretty much common sense ) and point no 3 is hard to believe (it employs so many people to produce quality software and you think they will use the software made by a team of 4 students to make money?)

i dont care what IBM does or if its software are GPLed or not ( i never said their software was GPLed) i am only saying that TGMC/IBM is not hurting open source in any way

and you can totally take part in this competition using only open source products – linux/eclipse/wasce(btw it is based on apache geronimo)/ and db2 express-c is the most popular free dbms which supports xml natively.

=>”And please If you have enough guts then next time come with real name, we will not bite you.”

seriously? you dont know who i am? didnt he tell you?

P.S. how many hits do you get on this blog anyways?

@jaiz I think noone will say ” … oh you still don’t know my name …”

@noone you are completely blind if you cant see these license or you are doing it on purpose.

@Jai
so A.S.S. called you up on this? huh?

and I DONT CARE if their website is not trusted or if they extend their deadlines or how they are promoting their software

their IPLA licensing is understandable as they provide their software, worth thousands of $$$$$, for free to us students, and they would definitely not want someone to use them for commercial purposes. they only let students use it for making their projects in this competition and that licensing clause is there so that they can rightly sue anyone that makes use of their freely provided software to students for commercial purposes.

and GPL clearly states that anyone can make money off your open source software by selling it or charging for it in any way without giving you any share of his profits and I DONT CARE if you cant understand that!

A.S.S. had wrongfully written that
1.) IBM is hurting open source through TGMC, and
2.) that you lose your ownership rights to you project, and
3.) IBM forces colleges to make final yr projects in TGMC only

and my argument is that
1.) how is it hurting open source as it pumps a lot of $$$$ into linux development and BTW in TGMC LINUX is the PREFERRED OS for development and deployment and you get extra points for it too!

2.) they completely acknowledge YOU as the rightful owner of YOUR project, just see the last year projects with their authors team name and profile.
and speaking of making money off YOUR project
man, they employ thousands of employees to build quality software and you think they will use your code to make money??? and DO YOU think you can make better software than those devs that are on IBM payrolls????

3.) IBM doesnt do that(i’m only saying that coz I KNOW they didnt do it to our college)
and even if they do the ultimate choice of forcing students to make final yr project in TGMC rests with YOUR college and, no company can force any college to do anything for that matter,
and if you succumb to your college’s pressure to make TGMC project only, then you have only yourself to blame

@CantGetANick
you are calling me blind??
YOU couldnt read what i had clearly wrote (that that apology was by my classmate and not me!)
and you can completely make your project using only open source software (Eclipse) and it is a misconception that you are not allowed to use Eclipse/Linux in TGMC.
and of software installation, i easily installed eclipse on linux and it is evident that not all installing a piece of software on Linux is not a piece of cake as there are so many versions of Linux and not all of them come with preinstalled libraries that a software might require.

and I am not under any pressure to reveal my identity (which BTW A.S.S. already knows, thanks to my classmate!)

and I suggest considering the FACTS before YOU make any narrow-minded judgment

Time for me to jump in ! Yes It was me who forwarded the email and the fact that I sent it to my teacher too, shows that I knew what I was doing and still I stand strong to my opinion, I avoid making personal comments as you made at the starting of this comments series, don’t know what excited you to this extent, whatever it was, but one thing is clear , TGMC code is not yours whatever you say, and for the question that you said why do we care about ownership of the code, answer is simple, this is only what we are asking for. Arguments take us no where but when one has nothing to write he starts writing the way you are writing ! Its sad to say that it started off this way! I am not going to write down what IBM does and what not, it is not of my concern. Only thing that I am afraid about is that you will never ever understand what open source is and hence you will miss most wonderful feeling you can have being a programmer!

TGMC = Teri Ga**d Mein Code

@noone aka Piyush Kumar the ‘moron’

You probably cannot understand the meaning of GPL even if Richard M. Stallman comes and teaches you because it is difficult for morons to understand this. I have sympathies with you.

Probably software only means a game of dollars for you and that’s what we are trying to explain here. This is about community participation, it’s about inherent freedoms related to the code you write, it’s about sharing. Which is nowhere visible with this lame challenge.

With your comments, this is also quite visible that you haven’t tried any of the _flavours_ of linux. Also, running a bunch of proprietary software on top of linux doesn’t mean that you are supporting open source, in fact you are gaining from open source as a marketing term ( you should better understand this from your papas at IBM )

/–
man, they employ thousands of employees to build quality software and you think they will use your code to make money??? and DO YOU think you can make better software than those devs that are on IBM payrolls????
–/

In your opinion, every development in the software field happens at your papas’ chambers only. According to this statement all the student projects were also lame which took place in a lab of a university. Grow up dude.

Just for your information, I came to this discussion here after reading on a mailing list. I congratulate Anirudh for the great post which has helped many students to understand what they are doing. I am sure, many of them must not have cared to look into the terms and conditions which they signed. Thankfully, now they know about it.

@foobar

WHAT GPL IS?
would u tell this in detail.

@all
please explain to me how do you feel that IBM is taking ownership of your code away from you?
and dont give me all that licensing crap again :”By submitting entries, entrant grants IBM and their agents…..right to publish,

use…….blah…..blah…..”
=>and BTW that license clause also says that you give IBM a “nonexclusive” type of license which means that you have the full

ownership of your code and hence you have the authority to sell/license your own code to any other party you want to.

=>and the GPL states that I can freely use/modify/sell any open source code, but if i want to distribute/sell the code i can

charge money for it, although i will have to release it under the GPL license only, but that means i CAN still make money from it

@Jai
=>why cant you understand that GPL clearly allows people to make money from open source software by selling it?? and you can go to

Mr.Stallman to know about that
or read from the official gnu website :-
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

excerpt taken from above web page:-
###”Since free software is not a matter of price, a low price isn’t more free, or closer to free. So if you are redistributing

copies of free software, you might as well charge a substantial fee and make some money. Redistributing free software is a good

and legitimate activity; if you do it, you might as well make a profit from it.”###

=>and keep your sympathies to yourself, you will need them more than me.

=> i have tried many versions of linux . in fact i made my TGMC project last year on linux and for linux only(it doesnt run on

windows)

like i have already said before i have nothing against open-source/foss/GPL/dollars/windows

and TGMC is not promoting Open Source nor is it hurting it and Anirudh wrongfully blamed the TGMC and IBM of hurting open source

=> “came here from reading a mailing list” ?? who do you think sent that mail in the first place??

@nandeep
=>”YOU” is Anirudh here and he is worried that IBM will /use/sell/.. his project for money if he participates in TGMC.
=> and dont take “YOU” as all the linux developers or all the students of university. i was just asking Anirudh if he has written

a single line of code that has been a part of any open source project. and if he is worried about IBM using his code for making

profits then why doesnt he just keep writing open source code and make profits himself?? (has he ever written any code for open

source, anyways?)
=> i am not saying bigger companies make better software than smaller companies but if IBM had to make money using projects made

by TGMC participants, then why would they hire so many people??

@all
you all guys are opensource fanboys here , which btw i am NOT against, but you all have a misconception that IBM/TGMC is hurting

open source.

and instead of fighting with your college authorities, who are completely responsible for forcing you to do TGMC, you are bad-

mouthing IBM/TGMC here on this blog

@CantGetANick
haha! you are calling me blind??
its you who could not read that the apology was sent by my classmate and not me!!

@noone aka Piyush Kumar the ‘moron’

You are still afraid to use your name here.

I have full sympathies with you because the way you are speaking here, it only tells me that you are an IBM fanboi and run behind dollars. As I told you previously also, FOSS means freedom not dollars. Yes, you are free to make dollars also if you want using any model. ( I don’t think you’d ever understand the model also! )

But, the point here is that what IBM is doing is nowhere comparable to open source and the license doesn’t speak about making the source open for your project, but to give your project with the source with all the rights to IBM. For whom are you fooling around?

Oh, and speaking about open source, yes, IBM is misleading people saying taking part in TGMC you help open source. How? Because you develop on linux platform. (Oh, it doesn’t matter if you are forced to use IBM proprietary tools for developing on this platform) This statement was spoken by the guy who visited different colleges here. I think Lalith will be better able to explain this matter, as when he raised this issue in front of him, the reply was to ‘read the terms and condition’. LOL, for what he didn’t know he said, ‘read the terms and conditions’. Thanks to Anirudh that he read it carefully and made everyone aware of it.

So please stop attaching ‘open source’ word with TGMC (and being diplomatic). Let them know that by taking part in this contest, they are giving away all the rights associated with their code, software, idea to IBM and giving them the permission / rights to use the code _anyhow_ including making it proprietary without possibly attributing them.

I feel sorry for you, because with this attitude you are never going to learn anything. I doubt if you will ever understand the meaning of Free And Open Source Software and the community. You need to get out of your papas’ chambers and learn about the things.

what is tgmc guys , any coding competition?